As the Express Group takes Idea Exchange to campuses across the country, we begin with Delhi?s St Stephen?s College.
In this session moderated by Seema Chishti of The Indian Express, Kapil Sibal, minister of HRD and telecom and alumnus of St Stephen?s, speaks about his days in the college, the Anna Hazare campaign and his education reforms
Seema Chishti: During your time as a student here, what was the kind of relationship youngsters had with politics? And how has that changed?
Oh, there has been a huge change. In the Sixties, we didn?t have a market economy?the state was everything. I don?t think any friend of mine opted for a multinational company. Some of my friends were deeply involved in the Naxal movement, some of them went underground. Things were very different, far less competitive, far more laidback. We spent a lot of time doing many other things. I remember we used to have this annual test of general knowledge, and basically we used to sit for the test not to show off our knowledge but to enjoy ourselves.
Pranav Gupta (Ist year, Economics): You have said that Anna Hazare and his movement should release the names of people who are contributing money to the movement. A recent report noted that till 2008-9, the Congress collected R978 crore through the sale of coupons, of which only R85 crore came from identified donors. If you want transparency from Anna Hazare, why not the Congress?
Absolutely, there should be transparency and I?m sure we file our accounts with the Election Commission and with the tax authorities. Whatever donations we get, we show. But I think you are mixing two separate issues. One is funding of political parties: all political parties must be transparent as far as their funding process is concerned. But we should not mix up funding of political parties with funding of a particular event. To ask who was funding it, is a relevant question?it was an organised event.
Blesin Mathew (IInd year, BA Programme): What do you think about the recent public attacks on St Stephen?s College and its functioning by people who claim to be its only credible alumni?
I think St Stephen?s College should be open to criticism. The criticism should be informed criticism. I am extremely worried that the college hasn?t grown the way this institution should have grown. I think the alumni should contribute, help the college grow. We also need to change the way the college functions. We should allow public-private partnership. Otherwise, how do institutions grow? Institutions are run by alumni. They are on the governing boards, they make huge contributions to the institution and that?s how colleges move forward. I think that?s a structural issue we need to address.
Anshuman Kamila (Ist year, Economics): You want to turn post offices into post banks. But not all post offices are computerised. Secondly, they do not have the core banking solutions incorporated.
These issues will be addressed once RBI agrees to allow (post offices) to be banks. But we are going to change the way post offices function. We have a national e-governance plan, where all services are electronically delivered, including post offices. For example, a lot of NREGA payments are made through post offices today. I have prepared a national Electronic Delivery Services Bill which will go to the Cabinet soon and we?ll introduce that Bill in Parliament this winter session. Our attempt will be that in the next five years, all public services should be electronically delivered. People are talking about corruption nowadays; people say that when an ordinary person wants a tax refund, they are asked for money. We want your tax refund to be electronically sent to your bank account. There will be no human interface and no option for anybody to ask for money. Similarly, if somebody in a village wants his passport to be delivered, he can apply electronically. There will be no intermediary. We have 27 national missions on e-governance. About 12 or 13 of them are operational?for example, every corporate sector company files its returns electronically.
Vanshika Kant (IInd year, History Hons): By 2022, the world?s population is going to decline and we are going to have a huge workforce that will contribute to the world. What has your government done to improve skill development in India?
We are on the cusp of launching what is called the national vocational education qualification framework. What we are trying to do is to involve school children in vocational education from class 9. In class 12, they will get a CBSE certificate and by that time, they will have acquired skills based on the outcomes of up to four vocations. We are going to make the syllabi in such a way that it is outcome-based. We are setting up the national operational standards because you have to have operational standards to do this. We are creating the curriculum to fit into those operational standards.
Satya Sinha (Ist year, BSc Programme): All MPs say Parliament is supreme, that the right to make laws belongs to MPs. But I think laws should be made outside, surveys should take place, experts should be consulted. Then it should go to Parliament where you correct what is wrong with the draft?discard parts, keep what?s right.
What you are saying is absolutely correct and that is what we do. But there is a difference. People say they are making the law, that their law is the right one and if you don?t agree with them then, they will have to take action. Laws don?t get made like that, neither in India nor in any other democratic country. Things happen through dialogue. Democracy means dialogue. I listen to you and you listen to what I am saying.
Satya Sinha: Then why didn?t you take both drafts of the Lokpal Bill to Parliament?
It?s a constitutional matter. We are the elected government. We make the laws and present them. Today, there are two drafts of the Bill. Tomorrow there can be 50 drafts. The draft which will go forward will be the government?s draft. Parliament will discuss the government?s draft. The other drafts will be discussed at the drafting stage, then again at the stage of the Standing Committee and then when the law goes to Parliament, it will be discussed. There is no other procedure either in the Constitution or in the parliamentary procedures.
AnAndita Singh Mankotia (The Financial Express): While outlining the National Telecom Policy, you said you would set up a spectrum management body.
I did not say that. I said we will make sure that licence is delinked from spectrum. Thus far, licence was bundled with spectrum. No telecom operator prior to 3G ever paid for spectrum, right from 2001 to 2010 when 3G was done. It?s only in 3G that auctions were done.
B S Kumar (IInd year, BSc Programme): I am a national-level gymnast. I think the new semester system will affect students who pursue extra curricular activities and sports. Last semester, I participated in many competitions and I got very little time to prepare academically during the semester. What was the agenda behind this?
There is no agenda in the education sector that does not relate to the well-being of the student community. What does the semester system do? One, it tests you continually. When I was in college, it was traumatic for us to study for three years and then appear for an exam at the end of three years, which would determine our careers, much of it depending on mugging up things. If all universities in India are on the semester system mode, it allows for mobility of students. Then a student at St Stephen?s College can take a class in Osmania University by a professor of his choice there, sitting in Delhi. It will allow
Indian students to study in US, Europe, or any other place where the semester system is recognised. It also requires the teacher to be far more involved with the student than before. And it requires the student to be far more integrated into the curricula because he has to give papers every few weeks in the semester system and at the end of the semester, he has to give an exam. But you are right: as far as you are concerned, it leaves you with very little time for extra-curricular activities so we will have to look at a model so that your aspirations can be met within the semester system.
Chinki Sinha (The Indian Express): There is a huge shortage of faculty across the board. What are you going to do to fill that gap?
We are doing a lot of things. The 6th Pay Commission has revised the pay scales. A teacher at the entry-point at university gets a higher remuneration than a person at the entry-point of IAS. You are no longer called a lecturer, you are an assistant professor, an associate professor. You are not prohibited within the university from doing other things. You can earn more money in the process, apart from the salary you get. As a policy prescription, we are now asking higher educational institutions to make the transition from undergraduate forms of education to post-graduate institutions in a much bigger way?we are looking at 40,000 PhDs by 2020 in the IIT system alone. The PhD system is about how ideas are created and translated into goods and services by industry. We have increased money for fellowships in a big way. And of course, we are now saying you can get a job in the university only if you have a doctorate. That?s a precondition.
Akhil (IIIrd year, Physics): Don?t you think politicians should have at least a graduate degree? If you can?t manage a degree, can you manage a country?
I think it will be unconstitutional. Why do you think a graduate is wiser than an average person? Somebody may not have the wherewithal, their family may not have the wherewithal to send their children to college. We have about 20 crore children who are in this age group and about 12.4% will go to college. Our gross enrollment ratio in the age group of 18 to 24 is 12.4%. It may have gone up to 15. That means 85% of children don?t reach college. Are you trying to tell me that those 85% who never reach college cannot fight an election? I don?t accept that premise. You are in one of the most elitist institutions in the country. You can afford to ask that question. Ask that man in the slum. You can?t leave them out of the system.
D K Singh (The Indian Express): You referred to the Tribunal Bill. In this session, your party member was the voice of dissent. Is your party in sync with your reforms agenda at all?
Dissent is fine. This Bill was supposed to be passed without discussion. This was agreed upon in the chamber. So they (the Opposition) took advantage of somebody dissenting and didn?t allow the Bill to be passed and punished the students. Of course, my party is in sync with the reforms agenda.
Anurag Advani (Ist year, History): As a first year student, I experienced a drastic shift from school to college?the readings we have to do now, formulate our own theories, combine whatever is given and write it in a specific word limit. Is there a way to bridge this gap between school and college?
It is absolutely necessary. For the first time, about a year ago, I called a meeting. It was a dialogue between vice- chancellors and principals of schools. I don?t think the school community has ever had a dialogue with the university community. Integration is necessary. What is the expectation from a university of a student who passes out from school? I don?t think the university has ever thought about that. I don?t think the schools have thought about it either. We have now asked universities to start leadership programmes in universities for school principals. That leadership programme will give an insight to the university about schools and the leadership required in schools and the schools will understand the requirements of the university.
Satindar Singh (Ist year, BSc Programme): Most of my fellow students have taken up engineering and there are many who are preparing for the competitive exams next year and are willing to leave this institution even if they get into a B-grade engineering college. What exactly can we do to revive the research culture?
There are not enough incentives in the system for research. Also, I think the attitude of the community is somewhat different. The community says, let me go to an engineering college, I?ll get a fairly good job after that. Research takes 10 years. One of the greatest disincentives to do research in the IIT system is that from BTech, you have to move to MTech and then you have to do a doctorate. Most kids after BTech don?t want to spend two years doing an MTech. They go abroad and start doing research. So all that research that should be done in India is being done abroad. I think part of the problem is also the poor quality of engineering institutions. There is no incentive for a student to be interested in the subject. We need the accreditation process to be put in place. We should grade every institution for quality so the child knows that this is a C grade, B grade, or an A grade institution. What will happen then is that C grade institutions will vanish because no child will go to them and then we will only have quality institutions.
Transcribed by Dipankar Ghose
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