In this Idea Exchange moderated by Chandigarh Resident Editor of The Indian Express Vipin Pubby, producer-director Subhash Ghai talks about his films, flops and experiments with movies
Jaskiran Kapoor: You are the original showman of the industry, but now you?ve made a move from films to your film school, Whistling Woods International. What prompted you to do so?
As a writer-director, I realised during my 25 years in the film industry that there was hardly any good place to learn the art of film making. During my years as a film maker, I gave the industry many stars like Shatrughan Sinha, Jackie Shroff, Meenakshi Seshadri, etc., but they worked their way up. It?s hilarious sometimes, but sad, too, that most youngsters who want to be in the industry these days have no clue about films or film making. I realised it?s not their fault. In fact, in the 100 years of the existence of the Indian film industry, no one has opened a library or a place for outsiders and newcomers. There is no place to learn the art and craft of film making or any workshops for writers, directors, actors, technicians. I visited 32 film schools across the world and found out that while American schools are skill-based with a focus on innovation, ours is a memory-based format. That?s how Whistling Woods International Academy opened in Mumbai. Today, my students don?t have to wait outside a producer?s office. I firmly believe that India needs to think in the original. Except for Antakshari, the rest of television programming is copycat. There is a dearth of thinkers, ideators. We are still managers and operators; not executioners.
Jagmeeta Thind Joy: You produced the Hindi version of Rituparno Ghosh?s Nauka Dubi called Kashmakash. Was it also a move to introduce a new genre of films under your banner, Mukta Arts?
Yes, it was a conscious effort to try something new. We are interested in promoting art house and issue-based cinema, and for that we did make films like Black and White, Iqbal, Joggers? Park, Rahul, etc. This is for the audience that screams, ?where is good cinema?? I personally liked Nauka Dubi. It is a piece of great cinema, so, without worrying about the business side, I got it dubbed in Hindi and got Gulzar saab to pen the poetry to Rabindra Sangeet. This is also a cinema which has revived lost poetry. Today, everything is visual, only style. There is no content and films are flops. They are ornamental, without any soul. But fortunately, multiplexes and satellite releases are the place to showcase quality work, and if not in one year, we do recover our costs and profits in three years.
Jaskiran Kapoor: You are screening two of your upcoming films, Love Express and Cycle Kick, at the cost of one. What prompted you to take that business call?
I keep experimenting with cinema. These are short budget films made by the first batch of students at Whistling Woods and when they came to me with the story, I decided to do something. While Love Express is about a train journey from Amritsar to Mumbai with the story of an arranged marriage between a Punjabi girl and a UK-returned boy, Cycle Kick is a pure artsy picture set in a village where a cycle is the symbol of status and power for two college-going boys and how they play a football match to win it back. I liked the stories, and after making them in R4-5 crore with all freshers on board, we decided to market them differently. You see, for a cinegoer, the R200 he spends on a ticket is too much and he will only watch a Salman Khan for that amount unless there is something else to catch his attention. Also, while critics and the media might appreciate a small budget film with newcomers, it doesn?t do anything for the business aspect of it. To make an audience watch newcomers, we looked at all business angles. If the film is good, word of mouth works, so we decided to have a meeting with distributors, put forth the strategy and release both films on June 10 at the price of one. It is to promote new children and a new concept.
Vipin Pubby: You gave Hindi cinema a winning formula and people associate you with superhits like Karz, Karma, Ram Lakhan, Saudagar, etc. Then how did Subhash Ghai go wrong with a Yuvvraj and Kisna?
This is a constant question I have been facing for years now. When you have been making constant hits, you reach a point where it demands change and experimentation. You want to grow out of the hero-villain-vendetta mode and try something new. I wanted to explore the international market, and that?s when I made Kisna. It was an international film with an international cast. I chalked out a detailed script and storyboard. I worked the hardest on it. It was a large canvass and a very English film, and it flopped. It flopped because I wanted to charm the Western audience. Unfortunately, it didn?t charm Western or Indian sensibilities.
Every now and then, film makers enter a risk area. For instance, in my film Black and White, the story didn?t talk about killing terrorists, but about killing terrorism. It?s a stage in every veteran?s life, when he/she grows, wants to experiment, wants to take the risk. With Yuvvraj, I wanted to make a film on music, draw a comparison between Indian and Western music. I could have shot a film in Jodhpur with two actors, but I wanted to do it differently. In 100 years of our industry, an actress has never played a cello, I made Katrina Kaif play one. For the climax song, we flew in 65 musicians from the Venice Orchestra, but unfortunately our audience is still stuck in Karz-Karma, in Khalnayak times. They still want to clap to a 1975 dialogue and haven?t moved on from there.
Raghavendra Rao: Every director has his/her genre. Subhash Ghai was a genre all by himself. Were you trying to change the genre completely?
There is nothing called a genre. In cinema, it?s called a style. All my films have been different. No one is like the other. If Kalicharan was on crime, Karz was a musical. If Vidhaata was about drama, Hero was a love story while Ram Lakhan was about two brothers and family, and Meri Jung was a court drama. Taal, Karma, Saudagar, Yaadein, Pardes, Yuvvraj, Kisna, all have been diametrically opposite to each other.
Sukhdeep Kaur: But Yaadein, like Kisna and Yuvvraj was a flop.
Yaadein was not a flop, it was declared a flop, we still made money on it. Unlike the West, if in India we deliver a flop, we are executed for it, written off without another chance. Whereas abroad, critics don?t hang film makers, they critique the performance or the story. Here, one flop, and we lose faith. And ironically, it?s these ?flops? that have been declared classics down the years?films that were made much ahead of their time like Raj Kapoor?s Mera Naam Joker, Yash Chopra?s Lamhe. Karz too was criticised and I remember Rishi Kapoor landed in hospital after the release. It was ten years ahead of its time and people told me, I should have made another Vidhaata. But 30 years down the line, Karz is still alive in public memory. Maybe ten years later, Yaadein will be a hit with the next generation.
Raghavendra Rao: What is the story behind the song Jai Ho not being used in Yuvvraj?
Every song has a destiny. Even Mozart, who died a pauper, didn?t know his compositions would be worth crores and that he would be a big star. For Yuvvraj, we had about eight to ten songs and Jai Ho was one of them. But it was a disco setting and we needed an item number. Gulzar gave me the words and when I picturised them, I could not place zari wali aasman ke tale on my character who was a ruthless, heartless man. He wouldn?t have been able to carry off such heavy words. Later on, A R Rahman called and said Danny Boyle liked the Jai Ho number and needed a Bollywood song for his film Slumdog Millionaire. I said give it to him. It won an Oscar. Maybe I will make a film that bags an Oscar.
Jagmeeta Thind Joy : Is the audience still stuck in the cinema of ?80s-?90s or has it moved on?
In the ?50s and ?60s, when we had films like Pyaasa, only the upper classes watched cinema. We were banned from it. Then came the C-grade cinema with its bad action and mythological films. In the ?70s and ?80s, it was about abuse, corrupt politicians, the anti-establishment angle, the angry young man at the centre of it and all the rickshawallahs, tongawallahs, labourers lapped it up. Cinema is a reflection of our society and today, there is a division: 25% is a student population, 25 to 35% watch family entertainers while the rest are in the commercial zone. The audience is moving, and people go and watch an Udaan as well as a Dabangg.
Raghavendra Rao : How do you rate the current crop of film makers? Which are the recent films you liked?
Taare Zameen Par, 3 Idiots. I like the fact that films today are bold enough to talk about dyslexia, to influence people, to entertain and pack in a message.
Swadesh Talwar: Why have offensive words and slang crept into our films and music?
There is an interesting way to look at it. When I was six years old, my grandfather used to scold my father saying hamare zamane main aise hota tha. When I grew up, my father said the same thing to us. The thing is that everything changes, nothing is constant. Change is good and should be accepted. It used to take four years to book a telephone in hamare zamaana, and God was our only support system. Children were snubbed, not allowed to argue with elders. We are a hypocritical society. We like having girlfriends, but won?t allow our daughter to see a boy. We were products of confused minds and whenever I travel abroad, to the US, I explain to Americans that although we might be a 60-year-old democracy, we have woken up only in the last 15 years. We?ve lived in bad circumstances post-Independence, and have only started to explore and discover ourselves in the real terms in the last 15 years. As for abuses, it?s part of our language. I don? know of a single Punjabi who doesn?t meet with a hug and an affectionate hurl of abuse.
Charanjit Ahuja: Is it the multiplex audience that decides the fate of a film?
In the era of the single screen, there was no place for thought-provoking or art house cinema, especially from the younger generation until the multiplexes came in with multiple screens. So, while commercial cinema plays out, there is space to run art house cinema, there is space for Joggers? Park, for Udaan, for Iqbal. The multiplexes and multiplex audience gave time and encouragement to issue-based cinema, to a rising brigade of young writers who want to pen reality and explore different genres. Today, we have a huge base of horror, drama, comedy, romance, action films. Multiplexes don?t necessarily decide a hit or flop, but have given a platform of cinematic expression to the youngsters.
CharanjIt Ahuja: Does the hype around a film serve as an important marketing tool?
Unfortunately, these days, marketing and commerce have taken over art. But if there is no story, the hype falls flat in three days. The audience instantly feels cheated. In today?s scenario, the only marketing that truly works is word of mouth, SMSes, reviews by the audience on the internet. People want stories and not stars who make city to city tours.
Vipin Pubby: Why have you stopped directing films?
One has to change with age. I passed out of FTII, Pune, then went to Mumbai to become an actor, then tried to be a writer following which I took up direction. I gradually ventured into production, the corporate world and now I am an educationist. I made my money, got all the fame and experience and now is the time to give something back. And for the record, it?s been only three years since I made my last films, Yuvvraj and Black and White.
Jagmeeta Thind Joy: What happened to your ?M? fascination? And will we see you direct Madhur Dixit Nene again?
There was no particular fascination with the letter M, it was just a phase. As for Madhuri, I do have script and if need be, I shall approach her.
Transcribed by Jaskiran Kapoor For longer text, visit http://www.indianexpress.com