‘Everyone wants a BJP ticket since it is confirmed. Lalu, Nitish’s are in RAC’

SHAHNAWAZ HUSSAIN: The situation in Bihar is such right now that people are thinking what will happen next. The BJP will definitely be the main player. Yes, we are not announcing anyone as the leader right now, as we are fighting collectively. Apart from NDA leaders, we have put out pictures of other leaders.

Now, Asaduddin Owaisi has said that his party (the AIMIM) will fight elections from the Seemanchal region. Araria, Purnea, Kishanganj, Katihar come under this region. In Kishanganj, there are about 70% Muslim voters, in Katihar about 45%, in Araria it is 48-49% and in Purnea too the percentage of Muslim population is above 40%. The entire area is challenging. I am from Supaul district in the region, and if there is any strong leader at the state or central level in this belt—Seemanchal, Kosi—it is me. We lost in the Lok Sabha elections here, and so people think that we are weak. But we are not weak.

The Bhagalpur rally of Narendra Modiji on September 1, I was in-charge of it, and Modiji said that, of all his rallies in the past two years, it was one of the best. Gandhi Maidan had 63 acres, the Bhagalpur maidan was 203 acres.

LIZ MATHEW: How important is it for Prime Minister Narendra Modi and the BJP to win the Bihar elections?

Bihar is very important for Narendra Modiji and the BJP. We have won many elections recently—Maharashtra, Haryana, Jharkhand, etc. Also, when it comes to the Lalu-Nitish-Congress coalition, the fact is that it is not a new coalition. It is its second test. If Mulayam Singh Yadav was there with it, then we could have said that it was a new coalition. This is Jharkhand Part-2 for them.

People keep reminding us of the Delhi results, but the other results have been very important too.

In Bihar, Laluji and Nitishji are doing just lip-service on development; Nitish Kumar has completely distanced himself from it. When people talk of Nitish Kumar, they compare him to Laluji, and today Laluji is sitting with him! In Patna, when they talk about crime, Nitishji says that women can walk around freely, but the fact is that crime has increased.

So, this election is very important for Narendra Modiji. People say that in mohabbat, ishq crosses its limits and becomes a junoon. So I can say that during the Lok Sabha elections, people were in love with Narendra Modi and now it has become a junoon for them.

MANEESH CHHIBBER: You say that Nitish only gives himself a ‘pass’ because Lalu ‘failed’. What do you think? Is Nitish pass or fail?

See, I have stayed with Nitish Kumar for seven and a half years. During Nitish Kumar’s first term, people of the country looked up to him with hope, and not just in Bihar. The BJP gave Nitish Kumar due importance. When he was rail minister, I was the aviation minister.

But I have never seen him debate communalism or secularism, Nitish has never been a champion of these causes. When we returned from Ayodhya after the Ram Mandir andolan, many people called us untouchable, but Nitish was one of the first people to come and meet us. Then the issue of communalism and Muslims wasn’t there. Even our perception did not bother him. When Nitish joined us, Atalji (Bihari Vajpayee) and (LK) Advaniji gave more importance to him than other state BJP leaders. So his first term, it was his most honest working term.

MANEESH CHHIBBER: Was it Nitish Kumar’s most honest working term because you were together?

We were together and the hopes and aspirations of the people of Bihar were on a high too. But we gave Nitish too much importance. He started feeling that he can become PM too. From the day Nitish got the idea of becoming the PM, he killed the dream of Bihar.

In 2009, Rahul Gandhi somewhere praised Nitish and he said ‘thank you’ in response. Then he started feeling that if the Congress does not get the majority in the polls, then he could gain from it. So, despite being a part of the NDA, he said whoever gives Bihar special status, he will go with him. In 2009 itself, there was a change in Nitish’s character, he shifted from Bihar’s development towards his development. And when he won in 2010, his arrogance grew. I have never seen so much arrogance in anyone in Indian politics.

In the next five years (Nitish’s second term) that we were together, he had started fighting. He began asking, ‘Why is Modi’s name being taken? ‘Why did you go and meet Modi in Gujarat?’. Once someone just remarked that Modi will become PM, he instantly became angry with that person.

So, his governance, I can say, was for five years. But in the second term, he was at such a point that if the Congress had been in a hung Parliament situation, Nitish would have left us in 2009 itself. And he wanted to put pressure on the BJP so that the party would make him the PM if it came to power.

COOMI KAPOOR: Do you feel that as a minority leader you have got your due in your party? You have not even been made a Rajya Sabha MP.

See, the Rajya Sabha is referred to as the House of Elders, and my image is that of the youngest-ever Cabinet minister of India. For 36 years, this record was with Karan Singh. Why did I come to the BJP? It was not like I was in some party and was shouting slogans and then I found the BJP to be a good party and joined it. I finished my engineering diploma, I was in Muzaffarpur where my father was a teacher. Today every man calls himself from a poor background. But I can say this in the true sense of the word. I was born in the house of a teacher and I wore shoes for the first time only in Class X. Even in my dreams I never imagined that I would reach such heights. In the beginning, I contested elections in college. Later, I came to Delhi and met Uma Bharti, who is my mentor.

In the BJP, I have been a minister looking after six departments. After the government fell in 2004, I was made a national office-bearer. For five terms, I was a Central Election Committee member. And this time, I lost elections by less than 1% votes, and was made the party spokesperson. I am not saying this just for lip-service, but I have never felt in the BJP that just because I am a Muslim, I am facing injustice. Whatever the party has given me is fine. If the party does not give me anything in the coming 20 years , even then I will work for the party. I am fully satisfied with my party.

ABANTIKA GHOSH: A lot of people say that there is a difference between the NDA Cabinet that you were a part of and the one that is in power now. What do you have to say about that?

People keep comparing the Vajpayee and Modi governments. Vajpayee loved us like his son. I cannot recall a single moment when he addressed me as Shahnawaz. He always called me Shahnawaz sahib. I have seen Vajpayeeji since the beginning, to work with him was like working with your father. It was a very pleasant experience. To work with Narendra bhai is like working with your elder brother. The BJP of today and the ministers of today are younger, I do not consider them as father figure, but as elder brother. So, there is no change, just a difference of generation.

MANEESH CHHIBBER: Is there a fear among ministers now that Narendra bhai is watching?

If the fear is for the right reasons, then it is for the best. Who will take responsibility for the hopes of people that have voted for this government? People have elected this government with the hope that even if a small thing happens, the responsibility will be with Modiji. So, there is no fear, there is a sense of responsibility.

P VAIDYANATHAN IYER: Will the Bihar elections see caste-based mobilisation or development-based?

We will always talk on the basis of development. Even when we gave the special package to Bihar, we wanted the discussion to be centered around just that. For 35 years, the chief ministers in Bihar have been from three different parties, but never from the BJP. They need to answer why the youth of Bihar are still leaving the state for jobs, for education. The standards of education have fallen from even Laluji’s time. Today our children are going to Kota for coaching. One member from each family is either in Delhi or Mumbai. Why have Biharis become outsiders? They (the previous CMs) have to answer.

Nitish Kumar is purposely taking the agenda away from development to Mandal Part-2, on caste lines. But for every question put up by Nitish Kumar, and for all the state’s problems, the solution lies with the BJP. No matter what topic they raise, we will debate the issue on the plank of development. We have Ram Vilas Paswan (the LJP), we have Upendra Kushwaha’s party (the RLSP) with us. We have Jitan Ram Manjhi’s party (the Hindustani Awam Morcha). So if others want to raise the caste issue, then they must remember that we will not go there. But on what basis does Nitish Kumar claim that the Mahadalit and backward votebank is with him? They are all with the BJP today.

LIZ MATHEW: In your list of candidates for Bihar, almost 50% representation has been given on the basis of caste. The reality is that caste is a factor in the state.

Saying that we are above caste doesn’t mean that we do not give importance to those who are a majority in the country, and promote those from one particular section. People from every block are with us. For example, I am Shahnawaz Hussain, but I am not here because I am a Muslim. A true minister is one who is regarded as a leader even by people who are not from the same section of society as he is. It should be more about trust. But if they (Nitish and Lalu) are going to raise Mandal Part-2, then they should keep in mind that the person who was the champion of Mandal, Paswanji, is with us.

ASHUTOSH BHARDWAJ: You are part of a Parivar that sometimes says very bitter things about Muslims, such as that the community believes in the sword rather than the pen, love jihad etc. How do you react to such things? Also, you had a love marriage with a Hindu woman, was that love jihad?

Firstly I have never heard things that would hurt me from the responsible leaders of my party. See, the the party is huge, there are many MPs and one such statement was made by a Hindu MP. But both my party and I criticised it and objected to it. It was their personal opinion and not that of the party.

As far as I am concerned, I was in love with my wife Renu and, at the time, this phrase (love jihad) did not exist.

Jihad has to be against poverty, hunger… love and jihad cannot go together. I am not comfortable answering this question because now even my children have grown up. We have married someone not by looking at their caste or religion, (my wife) could have been a Muslim or from any other community, but all these questions cannot raise doubts about our love. If jihadis fall in love, they too will leave everything else.

NISHANT SHEKHAR: Do you see yourself as a CM candidate?

For some reason, these days it is being propagated that I may be in the CM race. My father kept my name Shahnawaz, I am a kingmaker.

I will never in my life accept any post which will be given to me because of my religion and because of this I have never been in this race. I am a BJP worker, I am not in the race for the CM’s post, yes I am in the race of making someone a CM.

People like Asaduddin Owaisi want to create a divide between Hindus and Muslims in the state. I want to be the fevicol that binds Hindus and Muslims together. But these other forces are heard more, while the people who try and unite, their voices go unnoticed. My goal now is to remove people who do politics in the name of religion. That is why I want to warn Laluji and Nitishji that I am standing in their way, with my party. And the respect that I have got in my party in Bihar, no other leader has received such respect in any other party.

NISHANT SHEKHAR: How long will seat disputes continue in your party?

All allies of a coalition that is set to win feel that every ticket guarantees them a seat in the Assembly. We have confirmed tickets. Laluji and Nitishji’s ticket is in RAC, that is why there is not much of a crowd with them. With us, everyday a partner asserts that they want this or that seat. We are under pressure even for those seats that we have already given out.

ABANTIKA GHOSH: There is talk that the Samajwadi Party and Owaisi are B-Team of the BJP in Bihar. What do you have to say about that?

No one can dream about Owaisi being part of the BJP’s team. Owaisi’s goal is to make Hyderabad a part of Pakistan, while our goal is that, from Hyderabad to Kashmir, it should all be ours. Our ideas and ideologies are poles apart. So, if you say that Owaisi and the BJP can come together, then it is like bringing fire and petrol together.

ABANTIKA GHOSH: Only BJP-ruled states have meat bans. And now the culture minister has also said that during Navratras, there should be a meat ban. Why is meat ban so crucial to the BJP’s politics?

Respecting each other’s sentiments is written in every religion’s text. When there is namaz in a masjid, one usually doesn’t play loud music in front of it because of their sentiment. No one says ban it. Many times, the meat ban is a part of people’s sentiments. Not just Muslims, everyone is eating meat these days. You cannot link this to politics. These are all done to respect sentiments. It is not as big an issue as it has been made out to be.

LIZ MATHEW: The BJP has won on the slogan of development earlier. But if you see, from Tamil Nadu to J&K, the discussion is over something else. In Tamil Nadu, they say Rajinikanth should not act in a Tipu Sultan movie. AR Rahman is also raising his voice against the same. In Mumbai, they say that only Marathis will get the auto licence. Don’t you think the goal of progress is getting lost.

The BJP’s official stand is sabka saath, sabka vikas. We are keeping everyone’s sentiments in mind. We don’t want people to go astray from our objective, neither do we want the country to deviate from this path. This is the only goal through which the country can progress… Not just once, this has been said many times. The PM has said it in closed-door meetings, said it from a pedestal. It has been said everywhere. No person of any religion has ever come to our doorstep and complained of a problem.