He is not the country?s highest paid lawyer for nothing. Between representing Anil Ambani in his battle with brother Mukesh, and defending Kanimozhi, Ram Jethmalani has appeared in multitude of cases, be it civil, criminal or constitutional, in almost seven decades of practice during which he has set precedents and rewritten judicial history. Perpetually making media headlines, he has received bouquets and brickbats in equal measure. From defending the killers of the former Prime Minister Indira Gandhi as also the likes of Harshad Mehta and Ketan Parekh, to opposing the death sentence of Afzal Guru, he has never shied away from courting controversies. He is at ease representing DMK MP Kanimozhi and Unitech managing director Sanjay Chandra in the 2G Spectrum scam, while simultaneously fighting to bring back the black money stashed away in foreign countries. Ram Jethmalani is also a Rajya Sabha MP. He spoke to Indu Bhan on a range of topical subjects.

Why do you think that the government is not doing enough to bring back black money?

Germany, a richer nation than ours, has paid $470 million to an employee to provide information about secret bank accounts in the LGT Bank of Liechtenstein. Germans have assured finance minister Pranab Mukherjee that they would unconditionally pass on information about Indian citizens holding secret bank accounts. The US has already gotten the names of such defaulters and recovered millions. If it was my name or LK Advani?s name, by now they would have leaked it to the press and ruined our lives. But we have become the nation of sycophants, including the media. We are a nation that has lost its sense of shame. Why are we silent over the issue just because some people related to the Congress have been connected with it? What have we done?

Who are they protecting, those who are controlling the government? This is common sense. What has the media done? Nothing. You owe a duty to the people of this country.

But why have you maintained silence over the issue since 1991, moving the Supreme Court with a PIL only in 2010, to seek a direction to the central government to make the list of names of Indian citizens with black money in the Liechtenstein bank public?

I didn?t know about all this until Janata Party president Subramanian Swamy shared the information on his Website. After this, an advertisement by some patriotic Indian in 2007 appeared in the NYT, where this allegation was repeated. Why doesn?t Sonia Gandhi or the government sue and prosecute Swamy for this expose? The Swiss ambassador had made a point the other day, saying that the Indians have never asked for information in the right manner. Please ask the finance minister about signing another document last year with the Swiss, under which the Swiss will give information about future bank accounts but not past accounts. You ratified this forthwith, which you normally wouldn?t have. The Swiss haven?t yet ratified the same. The government has given up because it doesn?t want any information.

You are going to file an intervention in the Supreme Court, which has taken suo moto cognisance of the forceful eviction of Baba Ramdev and his followers from the Ramlila grounds in the middle of the night. Who do you think is to be blamed for the crackdown?

The government has tried to fool Ramdev, who is fighting against the dishonesty of the government. He is fighting a war for the restoration of the stolen property of the people of India. All such civil society movements require some brains. Kapil Sibal told the yoga teacher, promising a law that all this stolen black money will be termed the property of the nation. This doesn?t require a law passed by Sibal; this is already the case. Ramdev might have asked for a place for doing yoga and then might have used it for some other purpose. So what? If someone is fighting for constitutional rights, defending the freedom of speech and expression, and exposing corruption, then why raise a piffling objection?

Do you think investigations are going the right way in the 2G spectrum scam? Is there a loss of R1.76 lakh crore to the exchequer?

Credit for the proper handling of the scam goes totally to the Supreme Court. Undoubtedly, a part of the whole transaction is a scam. I wouldn?t know the figures. There is definitely some loss in terms of the policy framed by the telecom regulator Trai, which had recommended no auction of the spectrum on the ground that the goal was not to make profit for the government but increase the telecom density in urban and rural areas.

The courts trying the 2G spectrum case feel that there may be a possibility of interference in the CBI probe and influencing of witnesses if the accused are released on bail. Still you maintain that bail should be granted…

There has to be some evidence of this propensity. Has the person done something from which a reasonable man can conclude that he is going to hamper investigations? Without such evidence, you shouldn?t deny bail.

Although this is a scam, it doesn?t mean that everyone is guilty. It doesn?t mean that there has to be a practice of stopping people from defending wrongly implicated people. I am not fighting in the trial court for Kanimozhi?s acquittal but for her bail, which is a constitutional right. You can?t deny bail for years. Bail is to secure attendance and these people have not fled away. Give them bail and try them on a day-to-day basis.

How do you rate the Prime Minister?s conduct in the spectrum scam?

I refuse to believe that he is acting as the Prime Minister of this country. Someone else is doing his job.

You are known for your sharp one-liners even during the hearing of cases. These may be seen as contemptuous sometimes. Why do you make them?

A lawyer is an actor. I appear for a client and say what I am supposed to say. I am not talking for myself, but just for the client. If it is for myself, then I am 100% genuine.

Isn?t it important to keep the judiciary in the purview of the Lokpal Bill?

There is no doubt today that corruption has spread to the highest pinnacle of the judiciary. There have been notorious judges. Who is responsible? Mainly, the government that is in power. It is the government that should protest against corrupt judges. But I can see that the government wants corrupt judges because they are amenable. They give favourable judgements. Note that every retiring judge, on the eve of his retirement, delivers one or two bad judgements to please the government, and strikes a deal for a post-retirement job.

We require honest people. We can?t legislate character. We have to find honest people to run the country. Otherwise, all the institutions are gone. One institution that is doing remarkably well is the Election Commission. I have all praise for it, for the way it conducts elections. It has done a good job even under a person who was a suspect in the eyes of the BJP.

You have been representing the accused in many controversial cases. Even now you are defending those accused in the 2G spectrum scam, Unitech managing director Sanjay Chandra and DMK MP Kanimozhi…

The statutory rule of the Bar Council is binding on every decent lawyer. No lawyer shall refuse to defend an accused on the ground that he is guilty, or for fear of people. If I break this rule, I will be guilty of professional misconduct. There is no question of conscience. Society has made a rule that you shall not convict without convincing evidence. All the lawyer does is to tell the court that the evidence is not convincing enough to convict a person. A lawyer is not paid for his opinion but for presenting the case of a client as effectively and honestly as he can.

What makes you a most sought-after criminal lawyer in the country?

Address this question to my foolish clients.

These days, lawyers charge exorbitantly. A common man can?t afford a decent lawyer. You are the highest paid lawyer in the country. Don?t you think that lawyers? fee should be reasonable enough?

Lawyers? fees have assumed scandalous proportion. I charge high fees, but 90% of my practice is free. But from the remaining 10%, who are rich, why shouldn?t I make money? I gave my life for this. At my age, the amount of work I do, young people can?t do.

You were elected as MP in the 6th and 7th Lok Sabha on a BJP ticket from Mumbai and have been the minster of law and urban development. Later in 2004, you contested against Atal Bihari Vajpayee from the Lucknow constituency. Last year, you returned to the BJP to get elected to Rajya Sabha from Rajasthan. Why this love-hate relationship?

I have come back to the BJP because the party needs me. They invited me back. I have told them that my views on several subjects are inconsistent with their views and they will make no attempt to change me. God willing, I will instead change the BJP. If the BJP were to follow my advice, it will come to power in the next elections.