Like all good gurus, Tsuda-san never teaches, he only ensures his followers discover quality truisms for themselves. Laughs Venu Srinivasan, managing director, Sundaram Clayton: ``He is like a Zen Master. He will say something and then wait for you to figure it out.'' Right now, the master is pleased.At the Deming Awards ceremony he took pains to point out that here was an Indian company, led by an Indian management, and seeped in Indian culture, which managed to adopt and adapt the Japanese TQM model. Now he is determined to transfer unique best practices from Sundaram Clayton tocompanies in Europe and Japan. This guru's work is never done. Excerpts from an exclusive interview withManjari Raman:

Professor Tsuda, for seven years now you have been guiding Sundaram Clayton. You must be very proud when they won the Deming Award?

I feel sorry for them! From now on, if they make quality trouble, everyone will talk. So they are obliged to maintain quality. Very sorry for them! (Laughs)

You are now guiding a cluster of other Indian companies also embarking on the quality journey. Is TQM helping these companies cope better with the recession?

TQM is not almighty. But it can help in a recession. We can reduce its influence a little bit more, but in a recession we need to suffer-our employees, our suppliers, need to endure this period. Because the next period is sunrise. And if we have TQM, when the sunrise eventually comes, we will work much better. Besides, TQM will also help us endure the long cold night of recession better.

What is the relationship between TQM andprofitability? Why are the two are not always synonymous?

(Tsuda pulls out two coins from a small, black, change-purse). Say Coin A in my right hand has good processes and is therefore doctored in such a way that it comes up heads 70 per cent of the time when I toss it. Coin B in my left hand does not have any good processes, so the probability of coming up heads when I toss it, is only 50 per cent. TQM appreciates good processes. But that does not always mean success-but a high chance of success.

Similarly, in a recession, we may feel less pain. But without TQM, if we have good result, it has happened by chance. But we should not appreciate only one year of chance good result.

Apparently, even before you came to Sundaram Clayton as a TQM guide, you took Venu Srinivasan to three companies in Japan. What were the lessons you wanted to bring home to him, on the relationship between the owner and TQM?

I showed Venu-san three styles. One company was run by an American-educated CEO in anAmerican style. The second company was managed by a person promoted from within the employees. The third company was family owned. I introduced Venu-san to all three and told him your company is family-owned but we have to have a different way of managing. Not managing by power or authority, but managing by leadership based on the power of morals. Not on power of money. You need to build your own style. Based on reality rather than expectation.

Most of the companies in the Indian cluster are family-owned businesses. The commitment of the owner and successful TQM implementation has already become a major issue.

Some people can understand and get inspired--like Venu-san. In Venu's family, from his grandfather to himself, there was a good succession of morals and policy in business. Others may not have so much of history. So all cluster companies will not be able to do same things. Some will drop out.

Has the implementation of TQM been unique in Sundaram Clayton, compared to the manner in whichJapanese companies use the model?

The TQM model is not different but the way of implementing TQM is different. SCL will now influence the way TQM is implemented in Europe and Japan. Several companies in Europe will implement the SCL way of managing now. Sundaram Clayton's X-Matrix for policy deployment for example is being implemented by one German, Belgium, Spanish and French company, each. Also, to make policy guidelines, SCL has a very transparent system. This will also influence Japanese and European companies. It's a good contribution for the progress of TQM.